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Talk:Tali: Treason
It would be great if we could mention where to find the upgrade on the mission. It's found through the door right after the geth salvage part that you can speak to Tali about. I just can't find a good way to write that into the walktrhough. Ghost 403 01:11, February 17, 2010 (UTC) :I think that Upgrade guide mention the exact location where you can find all of the upgrades. --silverstrike 01:22, February 17, 2010 (UTC) ::It would still be useful to provide them in the walkthroughs, though. After all, that's the sort of thing most people use walkthroughs for . --DRY 01:45, February 17, 2010 (UTC) Admiral Xen's message I'm doing a playthrough in which Shepard is being unpleasant and trying to have as few loyal squad members as possible. So I presented the evidence at the trial. Still get the message from Admiral Xen. Doesn't make much sense since the evidence was made public, but it means the message will be sent no matter whether the evidence was suppressed or not. —Seburo 11:40, February 18, 2010 (UTC) : There are several bugged missions that result in the wrong post-mission email. I'm guessing this is one of them. Just out of interest, did you specifically tell Admiral Xen about the evidence (after the trial?). Perhaps this message triggers if you actively deceive Xen after the trial (in a conversation) or simply don't talk to her. Bronzey 11:37, February 19, 2010 (UTC) Rally the crowd? I saved both Veetor and Kal'Reegar, talked to them before the going to Alarei (Paragon options) and yet I didn't get the option of rallying the crowd. Am I missing something? Update: I talked to the Admirals, too. Do you have to explore all dialogue options, or something? Kiadony 08:29, February 25, 2010 (UTC) : It seems you also need to use at least one of the Charm or Intimidate options during the first stage of the trial. Without using either, I didn't get the rally the crowd option despite asking Veetor and Kal'Reegar for help and exhausting dialogue options with the admirals; when I went back and used both Charm options, I was able to rally the crowd. I've gone back and used both Charm options individually; using either impresses the quarians with Shepard's speaking abilities, but I didn't play through the rest of the quest to see whether I could rally the crowd afterward. Plactus 10:40, April 15, 2010 (UTC) : :Okay, yesterday I've got it right. I talked to each one of them (including Raan), exploring all dialogue options, I also asked Tali if we should talk to people beforehand. Kiadony 07:22, August 18, 2010 (UTC) Glitch in penultimate battle I just observed an interesting glitch that allows the next-to-last battle (just before Rael'Zorah's body) to be bypassed. I was playing an Engineer and at the start of the battle spawned a combat drone in the middle of the geth coming through the lower door. That group of geth immediately died, and the game skipped to the cutscene over Rael's body. Interestingly, when I went back to loot the previous room, the geth on the side balcony was still alive; also, everybody still had their weapons in hand during the cutscene, which made for some interesting clipping. It might be good to investigate this further, to see if it's reproducible and if it can be triggered by other friendly units, such as Tali's combat drone or a hacked geth. --Diyartifact 02:14, March 6, 2010 (UTC) I just discovered this by accident. I used my combat drone just as the 2nd wave of geth spawned i instantly triggered the cutscene. I'll have to replay the mission and see how reliable this glitch is. Jedted (talk) 04:51, April 30, 2013 (UTC) Legion's Involvement I was wrestling with how best to document the differences in the social experience when you bring Legion aboard the Rayya (assuming you convince the captain to allow him to come aboard). There are many differences, particularily with the admirals conversations which are worth noting, but I am wondering where best to mention these differences. I was thinking this page would be the most appropriate, being a relatively central and applicable location (as opposed to listing each difference under each individual admiral's dossier or under Legion's dossier). I will document said information here for now, let me know if anyone has a better idea or if I missed something and someone already has. Incrognito 07:21, March 6, 2010 (UTC) :Have you tried the Legion dialogue subpage? That seems like the best place, and there already seems to be a fair bit on there about comments the various Admirals make if you bring Legion on this mission. The info you were thinking of adding may very well be there already. SpartHawg948 07:29, March 6, 2010 (UTC) :Addendum- after seeing what you added I can safely say that all of it is, in fact, present already on the Legion unique dialogue subpage (link provided above), which is the more appropriate venue for it. SpartHawg948 07:33, March 6, 2010 (UTC) :: Thank you for clarifying that. I had suspected somebody had already documented this, I simply did not find it before. Incrognito 07:47, March 6, 2010 (UTC) :::Fair enough. It's generally a good idea to wait at least a little bit for answers to questions like this before adding the content, and if you ask, then add it, and a few minutes later someone removes it (especially if that someone is an admin), maybe it'd be best to check and see if anyone answered your query before adding it a second time. SpartHawg948 07:49, March 6, 2010 (UTC) I didn't mean to add it a second time. I was in the middle of reediting it when the wiki warned me the page had been modified in the process. That's when the lightbulb turned on so to speak =) Incrognito 07:57, March 6, 2010 (UTC) :Gotcha! Hate when that happens. Lousy other people editing at the same time as me! :P SpartHawg948 07:58, March 6, 2010 (UTC) I noticed a number of differences not listed here, and here's one picture maybe worth adding: :*Passing by, overhear male Quarian talking about filing a complaint about letting a Geth onboard :*Admiral Koris calls security to "remove the Geth" at the at the very beginning of the trial - possibly why Legion sits in the corner later :*When speaking with Admiral Xen during trial recess, inquires about dissecting Legion - Legion objects :*When speaking with Admiral Korus during trial recess, there is an opportunity to ask Legion about chances of peace - Legion states Quarians have attacked 100% of the time when had advantage :*Getting on the shuttle to the Alarei, the door guard asks apprehensively about Legion :*During the second half of the trial, Legion is apparently told to go "sit in a corner". (I haven't played with another character to verify, but I assume anyone else would be standing with Shepard.) I play with subtitles, but have a save at that spot if a clearer picture is needed. --Civil Protection C13-06A 09:06, August 7, 2010 (UTC) ::Those are actually all dialogue options, which would not go on this page. The most appropriate place for them would be the Legion/Unique dialogue page. In fact, some of them may very well be there already. Additionally, the picture is not suitable for the article, as it depicts Commander Shepard (pretty prominently), and as such violates the Canon and Shepard and gender policies of the site. SpartHawg948 09:36, August 7, 2010 (UTC) :::Legion goes to the bench in the back but other characters sit on the stairs or are standing on the stairs so Legions maybe doing it on his own behalf but there is no dialogue other then everyone saying "there is a geth" and saying "geth prove Tali's trial" even though the ambient dialogue is useless here so no, he is not asked to go back there as he instead goes on his own. Spartan3222 (talk) 14:32, December 3, 2013 (UTC) :::I believe this is one of those "exceptions" as it is impossible to have a view only of Legion during this sequence. Shepard is the main character, so logically all storyboard shots include him/her prominently. :::However, I am more interested if other characters sit in the corner like that, or this behavior is unique to Legion. If you feel you can hack the in-game camera to move the POV, there is an instant during the cutscene where Shepard is not shown, or if you even want to crop the image to cut out Shepard - by all means. --Civil Protection C13-06A 13:45, August 7, 2010 (UTC) ::::The sitting in a corner thing isn't unique to Legion, all squadmates do that. I've never done this mission with Legion and I always see my squadmate back on the stairs. PikaShepard 13:53, August 7, 2010 (UTC) ::::Thanks, PikaShepard, for the clarification. I thought that was exceptionally odd when I first saw it, as Legion was standing next to Shepard during the introductory phase of the trial and had a close-up shot. It wouldn't be the first time BioWare had a reaction shot in the background. --Civil Protection C13-06A 14:02, August 7, 2010 (UTC) :::::Yeah, just to make clear, there really are no 'exceptions'. We do allow images depicting Shepard under very limited and clearly defined circumstances - romance (as, with only twp exceptions, if you're romancing someone, you're definitely a specific gender), armor illustrations, and the Commander Shepard article itself. So, unless this picture is of Shepard actively romancing someone (it isn't), a headshot of the default male or female Shepard (it isn't), or a picture for the purpose of illustrating a piece of armor (it isn't), it doesn't qualify, and is a violation of canon and Shep/gender policy. SpartHawg948 19:14, August 7, 2010 (UTC) Are the Geth on the Alarei Heretic Geth (same with Tali's recruitment?) If they aren't, and you bring Legion, why would the True Geth want to kill Legion? And wouldn't Legion be able to communicate to them? Also, wouldn't the Admiralty Board be extremely interested in talking to Legion? The Geth is the point of their trial, after all. I'm sure he'd have plenty to say to them about the past, and the goals of the Geth. :It is never mentioned what type of geth, remember geth isn't capitalized, they are, heretic or true geth. They may just be geth that aren't part of either one, which would avoid some tricky conflicts depending on actions already taken. Maybe Legion could communicate with them, and maybe not it is never mentioned. As to the board, while that is a point, think about the quarian's past, and also think about the dialogue with the admirals if Legion is brought, especially with Zaal'Koris. Lancer1289 14:07, January 27, 2011 (UTC) Weird bug I've just hit this in my Insanity playthrough: I start Tali's Treason mission, get on the ship, talk to the captain who meets me as normal. I walk over to talk to the Admiral who is supposed to conduct the trial, but instead of her doing the normal "pre-trial briefing" it jumps straight to the post-trial "You set me up!" conversation. Has anyone encountered this? Is there a fix? ShadowRanger 14:03, March 14, 2010 (UTC) :A couple attempts at loading an earlier save and replaying to this point didn't fix the issue, so I just pushed on through. After the weird skip, there are hovering interaction icons for several of the people that are supposed to be standing around before you travel to the Alarei, but nobody standing in or near them; aside from Raan, they were all in their original positions. I went straight to Alarei, beat it, and returned. Luckily, even without being able to talk to the Admirals to investigate their motives, I was still able to shame them with Charm. The mission ended up okay, aside from (presumably) losing a few points of Paragon that I could have received in the opening of the trial, but it was already maxed. Aside from my annoyance at having the plot go wacky, I suppose it's alright. Least it didn't happen on my first playthrough. Would have been *really* confusing. ShadowRanger 00:31, March 15, 2010 (UTC) :: Oh, I'm sorry I was a bit late in reading this. I know why that earlier skip you mentioned happens. When approaching Admiral Raan (I think that was her name), the PRE-TRIAL conversation is an automatic event (meaning if you walk up to her, you automatically engage in conversation with her). But if you select the TALK option before the event can trigger, she goes into the POST-TRIAL conversation (since the mission was designed for you to automatically engage in convo with her before the trial and the option to TALK should have been made available only after the trial started). Just an oversight, I'm sure the trigger for the automatic conversation should have been set to a wider area around the Admiral so you couldn't select the talk option until the trial was suspended. It's not a bug---try loading an earlier save and simply walking up to her. Hope that helps! Cheers! Rath101 09:15, March 17, 2010 (UTC) :::A little late for that (I just pushed on through and beat the game, and while I think I still have a pre-conversation save, I'm not going to replay the god damned collector ship on Insanity just to satisfy my completionist tendencies). Thanks for the tip though. Will definitely be handy for subsequent playthroughs. ShadowRanger 14:37, March 17, 2010 (UTC) ::::I can confirm this bug - several times have missed the pre-trial conversation this way, and then when you enter the trial room the Quarians are arranged in a weird square, etc. Cattlesquat (talk) 20:51, April 18, 2014 (UTC) New outfit - or not... Just completed this mission, and accidentally gave the evidence to the trial whilst skipping through the dialogue, (was planning on using the renegade option). In any case, mission completed, the mission summary stated Tali's outfit was unlocked, however it isn't. Got the tech upgrade, and she isn't loyal. Maybe someone wants to check that. :Ok the outfits are only unlocked, well from my experience, when a character is loyal, so I think that is a glitch on the game's part becuase the outfits are only unlocked it seems when the mission is completed right. Also Tali won't be loyal if you give the evidence at the trial, and they give the tech upgrade anyway whether Tali is exiled or not. So what are you asking us to check exactly? Could you me a little more clear please. Lancer1289 16:13, May 9, 2010 (UTC) paragon/renegade meter so how full must paragon/renegade meters be to unlock the Paragon/Renegade dialogue options? :However full you want them to be. The Mass Effect 2 morality system doesn't take your total morality score into account. Rather, only your current morality score in relation to how big that score could have been if you played a perfect Paragon/Renegade up to that point. You can just ignore your bar, all it's good for is keeping track of the progress of your facial scaring/healing. It's an interesting system, but flawed in that once you unlock a hub like Citadel, it immediately takes it's morality pool into account when deciding on your effective Paragon/Renegade score. What this means is that the game considers you less of a Paragon/Renegade if you accidentally missed a side-quest or two. With oversights like these, it's no wonder there's so much confusion around this issue. 23:44, June 19, 2012 (UTC) I hate how the moral system is implemented. I tried to do the renegade and paragon actions to make my Shepard seem more normal but that really just screws me over. What Bioware did is to force you to stack morality which doesn't make it much fun any more. I wanted ME2 and ME3 to use the old ME1 way of morale choices where you pretty much learn better diplomacy or get better at threatening tactics for paragon and renegade respectively. It would have been so much better Spartan3222 (talk) 14:03, December 3, 2013 (UTC) Is Tali's help against the Collectors mentioned? At the end of Tali's hearing, after returning from the Alarei, Shepard can mention how Tali has shown her loyalty to the Fleet at Hastrom, on Alarei and even on the Citadel. I did however always do her loyalty mission before heading towards the suicide mission. I wonder, is the battle against the Collectors mentioned if you do this mission post-Omega 4 relay? FifthDisciple 16:30, June 18, 2010 (UTC) War With The Geth I was curious what people thought about the different ways you can talk with the Quarians about the Geth - and whether or not war may be needed. For one playthrough I wanted to do my best to make sure they do go to war with the Geth, and in another I wanted to do my best to make sure they don't. Any ideas either way? :Well that is mainly determined by your dialogue choices during the trial, what comes up, i.e. if you talked to the admirals, and what you say afterwards. However, until ME3 comes out, we can only speculate as to what will happen. Once we know for certain what will happen, then we can certinaly make some changes. However we can only guess as to what all those choices will have on ME3, and a possible war. You can encourage them to go to war, but in the end they may not; you may advice against it, and they may still go to war anyway. They said they will consider it, but again, until ME3 comes out, we can only speculate on what the Admiralty Board will do with the results of the trial and any suggestions Shepard makes to them. Lancer1289 18:46, June 22, 2010 (UTC) How not to get Tali exiled without enough paragon/renegade points? I´ve started the mission not knowing I would need a lot paragon/renegade points or have in the audience Veetor and Kal´reegar in order to not get Tali exiled. Restarting the mission has no effect because I cannot get back from the squad selection screen - I even cannot change Shepard´s head armor to get the 10% negotiation bonus. My last save is 8 hours back from the point i´m now at. I want Tali to not get exiled and be loyal. So any suggestions how to proceed? Loading to 8 hours back doesn´t sound very appealing... : Just go with it and have her get exiled. Next time you play through, put off the loyalty mission until you have a better Paragon or Renegade standing. Save both games after you beat ME2 so you can see what happens on each playthrough in ME3. PhoenixBlue 21:36, July 7, 2010 (UTC) Since you probably want to not get Tali Exiled on the game you are working on, there is a way to do it without paragon or renegade, but there are a few catches. :This option only works if and only if you allowed Veetor'Nara to go with Tali on Freedom's Progress, and if Kal'Reegar survived on Haestrom. If both are alive then you have a chance. The second thing, you have to talk to Veetor and Reegar before leaving for the Aleri and ask them for their support. If you manage to do that, then you will get a center option the Crowd on the right side of the dialogue wheel when you return from the Aleri. This results in Veetor and Reegar to make speeches. The Board will find tali innocent and you get her loyalty and you don't expose her father. Hope this helps. Lancer1289 21:41, July 7, 2010 (UTC) : :--- :Thanks for the fast response both of you. This is my second playthrough - I just totally forgot the points that are necessarry for this mission. I only have Veetor on the audience - so the lifeline Lancer1289 mentioned is not possible. Seems like I´ll just have to go with it, even though I would´ve wanted her to stay with the Fleet. ::Sorry to hear that, well maybe there will be something interesting that will happen with that save file in ME3. Who knows. Lancer1289 21:52, July 7, 2010 (UTC) For future reference, enable the console and use cheats to change your paragon and add skill points. BrentNewland (talk) 01:42, April 21, 2013 (UTC) Or use the gibbed editor that works for everything but PS3 versions of the games and give yourself the paragon points but I'm unsure if that will actually effect you choices or if it will just allow you to heal your face. Spartan3222 (talk) 14:10, December 3, 2013 (UTC) Tali's disappearing face I've noticed that if Tali gets incapacitated onboard the Alarei (and I always try my utmost to ensure such doesn't happen), then in any subsequent cutscenes, the silhouette of her face and the mouth-light which is supposed to flash when she speaks, vanishes. Has anyone else noticed this? And can a similar glitch occur on other missions? If so, should this be stated in trivia on Tali's page? Tali's no.1 fan 16:21, September 9, 2010 (UTC) :I always have the same thing, and I think I've seen it in other places too. But heh, this is a rather minor glitch, there are much more serious ones. --Kiadony 16:25, September 9, 2010 (UTC) Dialogue error? This has been bugging me for a while: when you ask Admiral Raan about the situation on the Alarei before going there, she says something like, "We must assume the worst", to which Tali replies, "No, we don't". Shouldn't she say "mustn't"? Or can you actually say "don't", too? --Kiadony 16:03, December 27, 2010 (UTC) :Don't isn't as grammatically correct as mustn't, but it is still acceptable. Lancer1289 16:57, December 27, 2010 (UTC) :tali is saying no we don't to assume the worse. what she left out is implied the grammer is correct. Shala'Raan's invocation Shala'Raan's opening to the trial, "Blessed are the ancestors who kept us alive, sustained us, and enabled us to reach this season," is almost identical to the Shehecheyanu, a Jewish prayer said on special occasions. (Blessed are you oh God, ruler of the universe, who has given us life, sustained us, and enabled us to reach this season.) There is already a brief association between the Middle East (in the form of the burqa-like suits mentioned in the Quarian page and the accents of the characters). Appropriate? Ingehira 08:59, March 12, 2011 (UTC) Every culutre has its own prayers, even fictional ones; Quarians no exceptions. Being Jewish, I know the prayer Shehecheyanu, though it is only recited on the first day of a Jewish holiday, as well as a few other uses. I think it is simply a coincidence. H-Man Havoc 14:31, March 12, 2011 (UTC) :It is also a huge stretch and really not appropriate. I tend to agree with H-Man here, coincidences are not trivia. Lancer1289 18:48, March 12, 2011 (UTC) Credits At the end of the mission the Summary said I got $ 40,800 (guide said only 40,000) The difference was 800 credits found. I don't think I found anything extra, as I followed the guide. You Probably had full medigel and heavy weapons ammo. so the medi-gel and power cells you find give you 100 Cr each which adds up to 800 Truth and Loyalty? If I give the admiralty board the evidence, can I regain Tali's loyalty later? For example, if you take Legion's side in their disagreement you can regain her loyalty later with a high enough charm/intimidate level. Can I do the same thing if her father is posthumously exiled? Delspencerdeltorro 22:54, October 6, 2011 (UTC) :You cannot regain Tali's loyalty in any way if you turn over the evidence. If you turn it over, then Tali cannot become loyal in any way. Lancer1289 02:04, October 7, 2011 (UTC) :Only way would be to use Gibbed's save game editor to make her loyal and undo the decision to turn the evidence over. BrentNewland (talk) 01:43, April 21, 2013 (UTC) too many unskippable lines of dialogue in this mission, trying to run through hardcore to prepare for insanity, and it's wasting so much freaking time How many Speeches are there? I have been looking around and found at least 2 to 3 alternate speeches in Tali's Loyalty mission after the Aleri but no one seems to know about it. I think it changes based on the Collector Base and whether you talk to the Admirals after the first part of the trial before going to the Aleri. Does anyone have any confirmation on this because I haven't found any information other then more or less badass conversation on renegade and more or less diplomatic conversation on paragon. This wiki doesn't seem to say anything either. Any videos may be able to help. Also I think this wiki should have a page devoted to alternate dialogue and speeches with Shepard and non-crew members/friends because there are a lot of alternates but this wiki doesn't say or show them to what I have seen on it. Spartan3222 (talk) 14:25, December 3, 2013 (UTC) Countdown to mission? Upon receiving this mission, Tali says that the Admiralty Board will wait a reasonable amount of time for her to show up, but if she doesn't show up in time then they will charge her in absentia. Exactly how long can you wait? Is it calculated by the amount of missions you undertake? If you don't show up after a certain amount of missions, do you fail it?--ShootingStarAJM (talk) 21:06, May 11, 2017 (UTC)